Editor’s note: Nearly two decades ago, my fate was forever altered due to a chance encounter with the then-San Francisco based creative industry rainmaker, Lisa Cleff. After several months of her mentoring me in the field of sales, I was hired by high-tech PR firm The Terpin Group, thanks almost entirely to her recommendation. When The Darnell Works Agency launched in 2000, not only was she a main client and collaborator, her referrals have resulted in more than a dozen vital DWA client relationships… including those at ATTIK, CBX, PLUS, PostWorks and Sid Lee, to name but a few. Naturally, shining a light on this phenomenal luminary is a great honor for me, especially since the interview itself was conducted by her daughter, Zoe Lindgren, a rising NYC creative in her own right. For your further enjoyment, I also highly recommend this great interview by Timothy Huang, who spoke with Lisa in 2016 about her career – and her role as a star board member of A.R.T. / New York.
How did you get your start in your career?
I studied acting and theatre, and I was in theatre when I was a kid. In order to make a living as an actor, one has to be uber-aggressive about finding work, and you have to be creative and original, in the way you present yourself to people who are in a position to hire you. Because you have to differentiate yourself from everyone else. I had to differentiate myself from other redheaded, Jewish 22-year-olds with a great body. I was an actor, and I started to get jobs in theatre and commercials because I was very aggressive about it. I would send out like 1,000 pictures and resumes a week. I would knock on doors that I wasn’t supposed to! You know, when it said “Don’t show up, just send your papers, don’t call.” I still showed up, and people were either like “get out of my office” or they were like, “ok, you’re kind of different and ballsy.” When you have nothing to lose you have a lot to gain.
How did you wind up in your current profession?
I went from acting to casting. As a casting director I had to not only get my own clients, people who are going to pay me to find and place actors, but I also had to find the actors. And then I had to make those actors look good, so the clients would hire them. So that kind of set me up for life. So I went from acting to casting, from casting to representing commercial directors in almost the exact same way. You know, you look for talented people and you represent them in a unique, and creative way that’s clear and concise. But I also have to look for the clients, look for the buyers. I’m basically looking for buyers and product at the same time and putting them together.
What is your current guiding “life strategy” that is most important to you?
Think of a way that hasn’t been done before to do what you’re doing. At the same time, if somebody has done it well before you, follow in their footsteps. So like, there’s no need to reinvent the wheel every time you want to get something done. For instance, pick up the phone and call someone who you need to speak to. No need to reinvent that concept, but what I do is I try to do it in a different way to say something different, and not say the usual bullshit. Or connect through an interesting person. Also, confidence. It’s all about confidence. I can’t sell something I don’t like. I can’t sell an artist whose work I don’t believe in. So subsequently, I only associate myself with people I believe in.
Describe one situation when you had to be creative – how did that moment impact your life?
Right after 9/11, there was no work. There were no clients. I was still in San Francisco at the time. But a lot of my clients were all over the world including New York, and I had to I had to find an industry that was healthy and not broke to pursue new work from a new client. In those days I read all the financial magazines all the time, and I paid very close attention to what kind of industries were doing well, and the names of the companies within those industries that were doing well. Those were the ones that I would pursue for new business. At the end of 2001 and early 2002, when there was no business anywhere, and everybody was losing business, and agencies were going out of business themselves, I came to the conclusion that medical devices were the only growing, healthy, wealthy industry happening at the time. So I thought okay, I’m going to find the top two or three medical device companies in the country, hopefully one that’s near the West Coast… and I did.
I located some that were not far from San Francisco, but the problem was, I didn’t have any relevant work to show them. We had never done work with medical, we’d never done work with any kind of pharmaceutical, anything medical, anything even hardly scientific. But what I did have in our portfolio is sports, and I had technology, and I had fashion. So sports fashion is very technologically advanced. I mean the work that we’ve done for sports brands was mostly about how their clothing and shoes help people become better athletes. So I put together a couple of Nike spots, and then I put together a couple of fashion spots, and then I put together a couple very high tech futuristic looking pieces. So this was print and video and strategy, and I put them all together into a pitch book to show this one company known for creating the most advanced medical devices for the most elite surgeons in the world.
I had to show that company that we were capable of creating a luxury, high tech, elegant looking brand. And that their brand should have all these qualities, because the people who were buying these products are these elite surgeons. In the end, they bought it… they became our client, and they basically saved our business.
What type of business opportunity is most attractive to you, and how do you explain your interest?
I’m most interested in an opportunity that allows me to be involved in something that creates. That helps people. Like that creates beauty in it, like music or dance or theater or film. Those are the kind of opportunities that most interest me. And only when they’re good, I mean I have good taste. I don’t really want to be involved in any kind of schlocky shit. But you know… stuff that’s not necessarily educational but that’s good, that tells real stories, interesting stories that bring people together. This is maybe a cliche, I don’t know, but I really think now that the world has gone to shit in a handbag, I have always felt that any kind of art or creativity beats violence. In other words, if you hand a kid a pair of tap shoes, or a paintbrush, they’re less likely to use a gun. And that’s from inner city kids to kids in Iraq.
Name an insight about yourself, a partner or a business entity that has driven you into action.
I noticed that with other people who were trying to tell a story and they’re not telling it clearly, that I can pick up the thread and translate. I feel like most people don’t communicate very well. And if I’m with a group of people, like let’s say person one is trying to tell the story and person two has got like a quizzical look on their face, I’ll translate. I’ll be like, “OK what person one wants to say is…”
Describe one situation when you faced hardship – what did you learn or do to move forward?
I was newly divorced with a young child… and I needed to make a lot of money. And…..and I realized that I could make more money by becoming a resource of information to my clients and not just somebody who was selling one brand of services. I knew it was starting to pay off when I would get calls from clients asking me for things other than work. For instance, I had a client at Fox Sports I worked with a lot, who was building out his own studio. He called me one day and told me he was looking for certain equipment and people who could install it, and some other far-flung needs. And in fact, I did know people, so I gave him some names for people I knew. What that did cement my relationship with that client. So then that client started to recommend me to other departments, and even his competitors, as a resource, and a lot of new relationships grew out of that approach.
Here’s another one: I was on my own and I needed to support myself and my kid, and the best offer I got was in New York City where I was not living. So I worked a deal with them where I could be two weeks in New York, and two weeks in my home office in San Francisco, and work that way for a really good salary and great benefits. I worked it out with my ex-husband so he would take my kid for half the month. And I had to do it! It wasn’t easy, but it truly paid off.
What would you say has been your greatest career achievement?
Encouraging people to reach outside of their comfort zone because they were good at something beyond what they thought they were good at, and having them be successful at it. Like working with a bunch of designers who I had convinced they could direct film when they insisted that they couldn’t. And encouraging them to do it, and that they were good enough. More than good enough for me to pitch them to hot shit clients. And then winning the account.
Please share a favorite quote or mantra, and any notes on what it means to you.
Success is the best revenge. Next, be whatever you want to be, but be the best. And finally, never compare yourself to other people.
To go a bit further, if you are an actor, or a painter who really needs an audience, do it but invite people. Show people what you can do. If you’re a writer, have a blog. If you’re a photographer, have an instagram and show. If you’re a dancer, have a recital. You know just make it happen. Dance on the street. Just show people, show people what you can do. Show people what you can do if you want to do something… do it fucking well and don’t be afraid to fail. Don’t be hampered by convention, or what you think might be the traditional road. Because I didn’t. There’s nothing traditional about what I was able to do.
Please share a favorite work of art (can be a book, movie, song, album, painting), and any notes on what it means to you.
Hamilton. What it means to me is perfection. It’s got history, and it’s got really great and memorable tunes, and it’s got the kind of lyrics that only a supreme, acrobatic wordsmith could put together and deliver. And the story of the United States of America, the birth of this nation is riveting. And he told it in such a astounding way which brings me back to, like, telling stories. I love good stories that make sense. And you know there’s a beginning a middle and an end.
In your career, did you ever feel like you didn’t belong in a certain place? If so, how did you overcome it?
Yes, my whole life. I overcame it being really good at whatever I did. Most of my career I worked for a salary and not a commission. And where somebody might have said you should work for commission, for different reasons, I never felt comfortable doing that. So every time I increased the revenue of the agency or organization I was working for, I would ask for a raise. And I would get it.
